Thursday 30 September 2021

Questions and Answers with Confucius 孔子問答

 In this post, I will post a bilingual edition of a curious Chinese text about Confucius. Entitled 孔子問答, - Questions and Answers with Confucius, also called 小兒論- Discussions with a child -- it shows how Confucius is is first matched, then flummoxed by a  boy called Xiang Tuo.項橐 It is reprinted yearly in Chinese almanacs.

His story was mentioned as early as in the Stratagems of the Warring states, https://jenniferdodgson.wixsite.com/warringstates/qinwang2 , but the actual interactions, we are told, was lost. The text translated here is probably an apocryphal text that fitted into this story. Xiang Tuo also has a baidu article (In Chinese  https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E9%A1%B9%E6%A9%90/3121539 )


One of the segments of the Stratagems In which Xiang Tuo (or, as he is called, Xiang Gao) is mentioned


Only one translation has been made of this text, which is found in Martin Palmer et, al's T'ung Shu (Vinpress, 1990),. However, this translation is also flawed-- and indeed, leaves out an entire segment of the text. The author thus reproduces Palmer's translation here, correcting it as necessary, and supplying the missing parts. 


.  

.  
These images are the text as shown in the 廣經堂 Guang jing Tang Almanac for 2020. The actual text translated is in the bottom half of the page. The top half of every page except the first is occupied with a list of Confucius' disciples, and has nothing to do with the bottom "Q&A with Confucius" text, except, perhaps, in theme, 




These images are the original text of Palmer. His preface is not included, for the sake of brevity 

*** *** ***

EW: the Chinese text I took from https://web.archive.org/web/20210930095848/https://kknews.cc/n/r6zv8zo.html, which seems to agree in all respects with the Guangjing Tang almanac given above. Martin Palmer's comments are prefaced with MP. My own comments have EW before them. 


**** 

孔子名丘,字仲尼。设教于鲁国之西。

Confucius, whose surname is K’ung and whose given name is Qiu, and whose personal name is Chung Ni, had his school in the west of Lu [MP: a kingdom in China].


一日率諸弟子御車游赴秦國之地,路逢數兒嬉戲,中有一兒不戲。孔子駐車問曰:獨汝不戲,何也?

One day, when he was taking his pupils out for a ride in a cart, he encountered several children playing in the road. Among those children only one wasn’t playing. Confucius stopped his cart and asked, ‘Why aren’t you playing?’ 


小兒答曰:凡戲無益。衣破難縫,上辱父母,下及門中,必有鬥爭。

The child answered, ‘Whenever we play, it is not good, because my clothes might get damaged and so this will ruin my parents’ good name.


EW: I would translate the last sentence as something along the lines of “I shall first disgrace my parents name, and secondly, at home, there would surely be fights" 


勞而無功,豈為好事,故乃不戲。遂低頭以瓦片作城。

 So when I play, my effort won't get any reward. Why should I play? Instead, I am just using small pieces of slate* to try to build a castle on the road.’ 


EW: The Chinese has 瓦- tiles- rather than slate


孔子責之曰:何不避車乎?

Then Confucius scolded him, saying, ‘Then why don’t you get out of the way of my cart?’ . 

小兒答曰:自古及今為當車避於城,不當城避於車,

 The child answered, ‘Ever since history began, I have only heard that a cart will avoid a castle, not a castle a cart.’ 


孔子乃勒車論道,下車而問焉:汝年尚幼,何多詐乎?

Then Confucius got out of the cart and said to the child, ‘You are so young and already so astute.’ 


小兒答曰:人生三歲,分別父母,兔生三日,走地畎畝,魚生三日,游於江湖。天生自然,豈謂詐乎

The child answered, ‘When human beings have lived for three years, they already start becoming independent of their parents. When rabbits are three days old, they walk along the field. When fish are three days old, they swim to the sea. This is all natural — why do you say I am astute?’ 


孔子曰:汝居何鄉何里何姓何名何字?

Then Confucius said, ‘Where do you live and what is your name?’ 


小兒答曰:吾居敝鄉賤地。姓項名橐未有字也。

The child answered, ‘I live in a poor village and my surname is Hsiang Wei. I don’t have my personal name yet.” 

EW: This sentence is badly translated. It should be “I live in a poor village. My Surname is Xiang [WG: Hsiang4], and my Name is Tuo. [WG: T’o2]. I do not have a style name yet”. The “Wei” is probably a mistake, where tuo was accidentally substituted with wei: a particle meaning ‘not’. Style names are only given when a person reaches 20. Xiang Tuo obviously does not have one. 


孔子曰:吾欲共汝同游,汝意下如何?

Confucius said, ‘I wish to ride along with you. How about that? 


小兒答曰:家有嚴父,須當事之,家有慈母,須當養之,家有賢兄,須當順之,家有弱弟,須當教之,家有明師,須當學之,何暇同游也。

The child answered, ‘My home has a respectable father: he needs me to serve him. My home has a kind mother: she needs me to look after her. My home has an elder brother: I should obey him. My home has a younger brother: I should teach him My home has a learned teacher, I should learn from him. How should I have time to ride with you?’ 


孔子曰:吾車中有三十二棋子,與汝弈博,汝意下如何?

Confucius said, ‘My cart has thirty-two chessmen. Shall we gamble with them?’ 


小兒答曰:天子好博,四海不理,諸侯好博,有妨政紀,士儒好博,學問廢馳,

The child answered, ‘If the Emperor gambles, people in the country won’t bother about him. If an official likes to gamble, it will affect the administration. If a learned person loves to gamble, all his knowledge will be useless. 

EW: Palmer’s translation is rather loose. The phrase he translates as ‘gamble’ in this, and the subsequent passages is actually ‘likes to play the game of bo’, which was a kind of chess. In turn, the first sentence about the Emperor is better translated as “If the Son of Heaven likes to play Bo, The Four Seas would not be governed” 

小人好博,輸卻家計,奴婢好博,必受鞭撲,農夫好博,耕種失時,是故不博也。

A person of average wealth, if he loves to gamble, will lose all his family’s wealth. If a servant loves to gamble he will receive punishment. If a farmer loves to gamble, the harvest will not be on time. That's why I don’t want to gamble with you.’ 

[EW: The “person of average wealth” is, in the Chinese text is 小人- an inferior person]


孔子曰:吾欲與汝平卻天下,汝意下如何?

Then Confucius said, ‘I want to talk to you about ruling [MP: a play on words is being made here; the word used can mean both ‘ruling and ‘levelling’] the whole country. How about it?’ 


小兒答曰:天下不可平也,或有高山、或有江湖、或有王侯、或有奴婢,

The child answered, ‘You can’t level the country because it has high mountains, lakes and rivers, and has masters and servants. 

平卻高山,鳥獸無依,填卻江湖,魚鱉無歸,除卻王侯,民多是非,絕卻奴婢,君子使誰?

If you level high mountains, all the birds and animals will have no home. If you fill up the lakes and rivers, all the fish will also have no home. Without ruling officials, there will be a lot of gossip and mistakes in the country. If you get rid of the servants, everything will be in a mess.’ 

EW: I would translate the last sentence as “If you get rid of Slaves and servants, who will the Gentlemen order around?" 


天下蕩蕩,豈可平乎

Many are the things Under Heaven, How can they all be levelled? 

EW: Palmer did not translate this sentence. I supply it.


孔子曰:汝知天下,何火無煙,何水無魚,何山無石,何樹無枝,何人無婦,何女無夫,何牛無犢,何馬無駒,何雄無雌,何雌無雄,何為君子,何為小人,何為不足,何為有餘,何城無市,何人無字?

Confucius replied, ‘Do you know in this country which fire has no smoke, which water has no fish, which mountain has no rocks, which tree has no branches, which man has no wife, which girl has no husband, which cow has no [calf], which  Horse has no [foal], which male has no female, and which female has no male? Who is the gentleman, who is the rascal? What is the meaning of less than enough? What is the meaning of more than enough? Which city has no market? Which person has no name?

EW: Palmer is evidently having a variant text. I have altered Palmer’s text to fit he Chinese I have before me. The sentence “which cow has no [calf], which horse has no [foal]" is, in Palmer’s original “Which cow has no horns, which horse has no reins”. In turn 'rascal' is 小人= Petty person. 


小兒答曰:螢火無煙,井水無魚,土山無石,枯樹無枝,仙人無婦,玉女無夫,土牛無犢,木馬無駒,孤雄無雌,孤雌無雄,

The Child answered ‘ a glowworm* has no smoke, well water has no fish, a mountain of earth has no rocks, a dying tree has no branches, a saint* has no wife, a virgin has no husband, an earth cow has no [calf] [MP: ‘earth cow’ means the lumps of clay used to bolster up embankments ], a wooden-horse has no [Colt], a bachelor has no female, a spinster has no male. 

EW: "Glowworm" is more properly translated as 'firefly';  ‘saint’ is more properly translated ‘immortal’ or ‘transcendent’ 仙人

 

賢為君子,愚為小人,

Those who are wise are Gentlemen, Those who are foolish are Rascals.

EW: I supply this sentence which is missing from the original. 


冬日不足,夏日有餘,皇城無市,小人無字。

Winter days are less than enough, summer days are more than enough. A palace has no market, a rascal has no name.’ 


 孔子曰:汝知天地之綱紀,

Then Confucius asked, ‘Do you know how the world came? 

EW: This is a problematic translation. The Chinese is more literally translated as “do you know the Net and Records of Heaven and Earth?” 

陰陽之終始,何為左,何為右,何為表,何為里,何為父,何為母,何為夫,何為婦,風從何來,雨從何至,雲從何出,霧從何起,天地相去幾千萬里

The meaning of yin-yang? What is left, what is right? What is external, what is is internal? What is father, what is mother? What is husband, what is wife? Where does the wind come from? Where does the rain come from? Where does the fog come from? What is the distance between the sky and the earth, how many thousands of miles?”


小兒答曰:九九還歸八十一,是天地之綱紀,八九七十二,是陰陽之終始,天為父,地為母,日為夫,月為婦,東為左,西為右,外為表,內為里,風從蒼梧,雨從郊市,雲從山出,霧從地起,天地相去有千千萬萬餘里,東西南北皆有寄耳。

Then the child answered, ‘9 X 9 = 81, this is how the world came to be. 8 X 9 = 72, this is how the yin and yang start and end. The sky us father, the earth is mother. The sun is husband, the moon is wife. East is left and west is right.Outside is external, inside is internal. The wind is from the forest, rain is from the pastureland, the cloud from the mountain, and the fog from the earth.  The distance between the sky and the earth is many thousands of miles. East, west, south, north have their own setting place’.


*****************************************************

EW: What follows was not translated by Palmer. This is a pity, as IMO it is the funniest section, showing Confucius' startling ignorance of the natural world. 


孔子問曰:汝言父母是親,夫婦是親?

Confucius asked: Are Father and Mother relations? Are Husband and wife relations?

EW: There is again a pun here: The – translated as ‘relation’ can also mean ‘to be intimate with’


小兒答曰:父母是親,夫婦不親。

The Child answered: Father and Mother are relations. Husband and wife are not relations. 

孔子曰:夫婦生則同衾,死則同穴,何得不親?

Confucius said: “Husband and wife share the same blanket in life, and the same tomb in death. How can they not be related?”

小兒答曰:人生無婦,如車無輪,無輪再造,必得其新,婦死更索,又得其新,

The child said: “When A person is born, he has no wife, just as a cart has no wheels [when it is first made]. A cart without wheels can have replacements made, as good as new. Just as a when a wife dies, a husband can remarry, and get one as good as his first. 


賢家之女,必配貴夫,十間之室,須得棟樑,三窗六牖,不如一戶之光,眾星朗朗,不如孤月獨明,父母之恩奚可失也。

A daughter of a wise family, should be matched with a noble spouse. A house of ten chambers needs a ridgepole; Three windows and six openings*, do not brighten [the house] as much as a single door. The Massed Stars glimmer, but they are not as bright as the single moon; how can the love of father and mother ever be lost? 

EW: "Three windows and six openings" is an inelegant way of rendering into English the fact that Chinese has 2 words for ‘window’: 窗 and 牖


孔子歡曰:賢哉賢哉。

Confucius said “Sage indeed! Sage indeed” 

小兒問孔子曰:適來問橐,橐一一答之,橐今欲求教夫子一言,明以誨橐,幸請勿棄。

The child then said to Confucius “You have come to ask Tuo things, and Tuo has responded to each and every one of your questions. Tuo wishes to speak to you, so he may be enlightened: Please do not ignore him”

小兒曰:鵝鴨何以能浮,鴻雁何以能鳴,松柏何以冬青?

The Child asked: “Why do geese and ducks float? Why can a Goose cry? Why are pines and cypresses green in winter? 



孔子答曰:鵝鴨能浮皆因足方,鴻雁能鳴皆因頸長,松柏冬青,皆因心堅。

Confucius replied “Geese and ducks float because their feet are square, A goose can cry because its neck is long. Pine and Cypress are green in winter as their hearts are Solid 


小兒答曰:不然,魚鱉能浮豈皆足方,蝦蟆能鳴豈因頸長,綠竹冬青豈因心堅。

The Child replied “Of course not! Fishes and turtles can float ,but they do not have square feet; Frogs can cry, but they do not have long necks; Green bamboo remains green In winter, yet its heart is not solid’


小兒又問曰:天上零零有幾星?
The Child asked again “how many stars are in heaven?”

孔子答曰:適來問地,何必談天?

Confucius replied: Now, you asked about Earth, why is there a need to ask about the sky?


小兒曰:地下碌碌有幾屋?
The child said: How many houses are there on this earth?

孔子曰:且論眼前之事,何必談天說地。

Confucius replied “Just speak of what is before our eyes; why speak of heaven and earth?”

小兒曰:若論眼前之事,眉毛中有幾枝?
The Child said “If you wish to speak of things before your eyes, perhaps then, how many hairs are there in your eyebrows?”


孔子笑而不答,

Confucius just smiled, and did not answer. 

顧謂諸弟子曰:後生可畏,焉能求者之不如今也。

He turned to the rest of his disciples and said ‘Those born after us are formidable indeed! 

How can anyone ask questions like this, in a fashion so unlike the present?


於是登車而去。

Confucius then ascended his cart, and left.


【詩曰】

休欺年少聰明子,廣有英才智過人。

談論世界無限事,分明古聖見其身。

The poem says:

Though young, brilliant is this child

Broad is his talent, his learning far exceeds, 

He speaks of things in the world without end, 

Plainly did the Ancient Sage see his body. 


*** *** ***


Palmer's translation, it is true, is flawed. However, we can only say so because we have thirty years of experience to look back upon. The author is well aware that thirty years from hence, his own translation might be mocked by his descendants. If so, all the better; it shows progress has been made. Reader, if you see any errors or objections in this translation, please inform me of them. 




No comments:

Post a Comment

The Thousand Character Classic numbered 千字文數字對照表

  The   Thousand Character Classic   is a Chinese text that contains 1000 characters, of which no character appears twice. This characterist...